A conversation with Cyd Strittmatter and Keli Daniels about SAG-AFTRA's W&W process.
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beautiful. You're here.
We're too well dressed, Beautifully appointed women. Sid and Kelly. That's that's what That's their street name. All right?
Yeah. We just go by said, Can
we have street cred terms? Yeah, I
I watched you walk down the street in Culver City. People just got out of
that was that's what street credit is exactly. But that street tread
Jim Connor's here.
I'm here. I'm Jim Connor.
I Jim, I'm Mike. See, Nelson, I'm Kevin Ashworth and our special guest. Yeah, Daniel
Kelly Daniels said. Strittmatter, Yeah,
we're gonna talk about the W's and W's and people who don't know what that is. That's the wages and workplace
working condition. I think I W W W Z thank you bridges and working
conditions, and it's actually Wages and Working Conditions Committee. There it is used to call the W W. C. But it's
the W W.
That's why we wear you then as more than one of them. Well, almost always only one. W well, there's todo double years of
W the wages and working conditions. So it's where meeting members common say, Hey, I would like different wages or I would like different working conditions. Let's try to get them in the next negotiation.
That's why people don't talk about parking because it's not wages and working conditions.
People don't talk about parking, but advised, because there's nothing that can be done about it. But at the
W W. Your parking is validated, so
it's very nice of you.
And remember, you are validated at the W. W.
You are a good actor. You're a good actor, you're a doctor. You're a good well, just
to be in a member being an active member, showing up being informed, uh,
getting to a microphone.
Yeah, it is. It's Robert's rules of order. Very poor limit, Terry. And it's a very it's been going on for a year,
and that can be frustrating. Oh, you raised your hand. You do have a point of information. I do. Thank you. Say, that's one of our terms. I was just gonna say
that Robert's rules is congee very intimidating, A little overwhelming and frustrating because it's not this round table, sort of. I'm going to talk, and then I'm gonna cut you off in the data. So that is it's a little bit to get used to, but
Yep. And you can tell the veterans have been there because they have it all. Radio people first get there going like what? What,
what what sit just said is what one way that you could get. We sometimes abuse this Maybe.
Oh, you better not say this. This is a tip.
It is a tip. But I get in trouble if you raise your hand and you are not on the list or you're not in line and you want to comment on something that is current. By the time you get up to the mike, sometimes the thing you want to comment on, they've moved on or you lost your train of thought. It's just it's a whole focus thing. But if you raise your hand and you go point of information, it's gotta qualify as a point of information, which is technically
a question. But
if if you're outside the box of that, you can get sort of busted for it. But you could at least get it out of your mouth and on the right.
I think you were busted. What happens? Remember, show up.
They take turns, the mic asking questions or making statements or emotionally venting opinions. Um, but then, to really get things happening, what happened beyond that is you need to make
make a motion, make a motion proposal proposal in emotion, try
to be an un emotional motion because people get up there and they make these really emotional motions. And it's like you're trying to say Just candy.
Oh, and then somebody emotions
that didn't There were fantastic ideas that the room just was like, What is he talking? E. I didn't do a good job of he needed more emotion. Maybe I needed more emotion, Maur. Maybe I needed to bribe the I don't know what I needed.
And then what has to happen is you make your motion. Somebody has to second that motion before that motion can even be discussed. It's all
technical, right? And you didn't. I think the thing is not to get too bogged down with that because, you know, it has something to say. Just just being there and having something to say and not really worrying about the rules, and somebody will help you, but
yeah, I think you're right. When you first go like the first W w for me was the 2015 going into the 2016 commercials contract? I think that was your
That was my father, Kelly. Yes.
Um, Katie Wallet Kate, even until there was a bunch of people that that was our 1st 1 And
intimidating when you go there learning Robert's rules, learning that we have, you know, chief legal counsel on their staff there. And there's chair people that are running the show, and they're kind of pointing at which who's speaking at which microphone and all that stuff. But what was great too, is you have the grizzled veterans there to kind of pull you to the side and be like Kelly. This is I know it's weird, but
this is how it goes. This is how
you do it. I'll help you with your proposal, and there will be people there to kind of help you word your proposal, your emotion and help you along. And I think if you stuck it through and you made it through at least two or three meetings, you kind of were like,
I kind of see how the sausage is made. And even though it's weird foreign, I like it. This is good. We're moving stuff along. So
it helps, You know, may make sure that no matter what your personality is like you can contribute equally is one of the good things.
And getting up to the mic like the first time is always scary. But then once you get up to it, then you then it becomes you just you know, you know, here's a hot
tip for our listeners. If you attend your first W W. And you got the mike and you say This is my first W W. I guarantee you will receive a plot
and I'll say that that although, yes, it's it does become this thing like sure, just get up. I always seem to sweat like I go in with all these layers and the like, two sentences and I'm like, taken off away or like I'm like, Oh my gosh, because you're there is some emotion. We are actors were not, You know, I don't know. We're not ditch diggers, but so robots, we bring some passion.
I've cried, cried a lot of times that Mike Yes,
I think it the last couple that I've been, too. There's been a lot of emotion, a lot of passion. I do when you get up that get up to the microphone. I always get nervous because I respect so many people in that room, and I'm I am passionate cause I'm usually talking about a pain point or
something that's hurting
me and my friends and, you know, other members and I, you know, you get worked up because, like, I don't like the way things are. This is I want to make a proposal to change it for the
best. I'm reading the
room, right? I'm getting that. My comment about an un emotional motion because I got up and I said I got emotional about new ideas. This is a good idea. That's what you do. You get up to the mix because you're standing there sometimes two days in that line there. Time to get up there. You ready to
go? Yeah, it is it. So it could be a
long line, and you've got to keep your thoughts. And sometimes you bring notes, and then other things come into your mind. It's It is about sort of staying focused and collecting your thoughts and being a cz salient. Is that the right word?
That's a great word. Vocabulary word I wanted to ask you guys. What did you guys find different about this last commercial in question? W and w
you mean in terms of negotiating? Why do you think? Okay, I know why it was different. I I was involved in 2000. Um, the strike of the famous strike of 2000. I was involved in those wwc. Those rooms were packed. I got incredibly involved. I sort of took a break. My last time going back to these were before 2016. Um, the change of 2016 as opposed to this. Well, you know, the horrible word of non union has now sort of come into play drastically. People were there. People show up when their paychecks are are not what they want. It's the it's the rule of It's just I've seen it on our union, and I'm guilty of it. Um, people. But the huge people who are who have made incredible incomes under this contract were in that room this time around because, um, they're not making the money. They're not having the opportunities. And it was incredible to see how that room was packed. I never missed one. I went to every single one, and the room was just packed every time with,
um, big, big booking
people in that room. Yeah, I think that I think you found there was even an overflow room.
Yeah, for at BMW's before, where they had
an overflow room and there wasn't, like, one or two people in that overflow room. It was, you know, 20 minutes. Yeah, which was exciting as well, but you're right. I think the pain had affected everybody. It wasn't. People started seeing their auditions go down a little bit. It was like no people saw their auditions go away. And people that had made insurance 10 15 years in Rome lost its sword pension credit.
And we're talking it over. You know, this is the gamut of all race, you know, Sex. All of it. I think this is a melting pot of all of us in that room, Which was background stuff. Oh, yeah.
There's dancers, young performers, older performers, disability. Absolutely. Everybody was there in that room. And that's what felt different than the 1st 1 I attended in 2015.
When I attended this, this was a total sea change was 2008 and I went there and it was like a friggin Fellini movie. I don't know anybody. I knew Kevin McCorkell and that was it. And there's maybe eight people in the room. Wow, there. Everybody standing up there in the diet. I didn't know who the chairman wasn't in there with that guy I didn't see. I didn't see anybody who worked the commercial contract.
Right? I remember hearing that.
And then we went to, like, up to a monitoring caught. You know, I think I have a little thing, you know. So they split people up so you wouldn't notice that there was anybody in the room and send it off in the little room that we talked about. The monitoring thing two guys got on. Ah, argument about if you run a red light, Are you really breaking the law? And the guy? The chairman comes into the room and sees these guys Argument. 20 minutes comes over to me. It's my first day goes on, comes over, wishes them in here. You got to get this under control.
We gotta get this way. Wow. What am I supposed todo Also,
I think this in 18. Um, there were a lot of younger members when he was super exciting. And people who were could talk technology and had experiences and really, really, really contributed. So we needed that. We definitely needed that. And it's like that younger generation that we were throwing the ball too. Are
passing the torch.
Yeah, that are building their pension credit. It's and
your daughter being one of my daughter
being one of them. Yeah, and creating their careers. But I also think and look, that that was 18. 15 was My 1st 18 was my second. So there could be a little bit of this that factored in for me. I found it a little less formal, and we also had terrific
terrific tone. That what? That wasn't intimidating, that kept it like that. The resents of humor. Um, I mean, there was passion. There were moments. It's and I have to say, one reason to show up is it's pretty interesting. You get to see some interesting live drama, you know, Um
and educational too. So
you learned you definitely
learned I knew nothing practically before the first W W. And I feel like after going through to an attending almost every meeting to W. W. Is in a row. My wealth of knowledge is is completely different. Yeah, and you're able Thio, explain that to people outside in other members, in waiting rooms and what not?
And I wanted to add that compared to three years ago, this last round of W W. Was very different. Three years ago, people were saying, Hey, I wanna get paid Maur on the Walking Dead, the most popular cable show. I want to get paid more on the Super Bowl. I want get paid more on the Internet. I want you people. And this time it was much more of Hey, we need to make some significant change and I need to change and we need to change about
bringing work back right? That's not just about our contract. We need opportunity, right? Can I just give you guys union working? Some kudos? I'm here to tell you, part of the reason that room was so packed as well as the paychecks was you guys. Union working has galvanized our membership like I've never seen it. It's true.
It's true. When you did your little opening, I don't know if that's your opener disclaimer. I don't know what it is, but I've never heard the expression membership up. Is that what you said? And And I love that I was equipment. What its membership up verses,
leadership, leadership down there. We're not being dictated forming them and
yeah, yeah, and it's true. What's it says because you got this grass roots, non political morse of nature. That's that we can bring people to that that occurs every month, every six weeks it's It has made a huge, huge difference,
which was born out of the frustration of the 2016 contract. That's reason why you know Bob Stevens and got us together to do for three years of prep for the next contract. You know, we're like, we don't know what to do And I think that, yeah, that made a big difference. And we did our W and W's for two and a
half years. Hi. It's Jack, leading producer of the union working podcast and partner of podcasts. Age as an awarded audio producer who's contributed to some of the finest feature films, television shows, video games and records produced. I've been inundated with requests by peers and major studios alike to produce and manage podcast production, and I'd be delighted to do the same for you. Have an idea for a podcast and don't know where to start or who to call. Look no further, have a scripted podcast, investigative or documentary interview show, solo cast, game show, talk show or literally any other project. Give me a call at 8182330640 That's 8182330640 or email me at Jack at podcast sage dot com. We have a world class studios here in Culver City and can work remote on location, literally anywhere, and have the broadband experience to help with everything from concept development to recording and editing, staffing and writers and, of course, music. Call me at 8182330640 or shooting email. A jacket podcast age dot com Mentioned union working and get a 10% discount Help. I'll make it 15. And now back to union working. Um,
Sid and I were in New York City. I guess we can say that.
Oh my God, you're outing yourself. I'm like out with whatever. You know what? I'm actually gay. We're not. Both of
you were on the negotiating committee
in New York City,
New York City
at six weeks with covered with
Kevin. And it was that's a commitment. And I will say for myself that I I wasn't so sure. I was aboard again, and I will also say I'm extremely glad I made the choice to go that I was part of it, that I was in that room and then just to just to piggyback on the membership up that I felt, I think I can say this, that that negotiating was membership up. It was not really staffed er than it was like over to you. We do. If people have this concept about the union, will the union is you, like we said chanted, That was the vibe negotiations. It's like, What do you want? And I know that Sydney, Sydney, I teach a class. We very much empower our students to get involved in part of the union. But
to join the what's all about? Like if you're the must join, make that call. Yeah, come on.
It's a very popular class, too.
The basics of booking first. Where is it? It's, um, camera left, which is South Park distinguished casting. Yeah, which is SG. We teach a Saturday class
10 to 1 for we four weeks, four weeks of different, you know, experiences that you would encounter at a commercial audition. We kind of cover the landscape. How
many commercials do you think you both have have done? Combined?
We don't know I don't I've never spoke. I mean, hundreds,
hundreds, hundreds, literally hundreds and hundreds. But I don't know what exactly
they're both of you have of being working actresses for this Love is just
Well, what we talking ballast is. You know, we've had Thio reinvent ourselves. We've had to really keep ah, pulse on the business. You know, we throw in our class is about business as well. How to maneuver in this business, you might as well
be the basics of business or the business of booking, you know, because we approach it that way because you have thio and back to the, you know, the idea of union working The idea of W. M. W's on and you sang what an education it is, You know, Look, there are a lot of actors that don't know how to read their check stubs, and you have to be in control of your career. It's show business, you know. It's not show play. It's not show camera. Show it. So you knowing knowing what the business is and what control you have cause so many people feel like they don't have control.
And like we say in our class it's were the 90. Your agent is 10. That 1990. So, until you're 90 you're 90
10. So, yeah, everybody wants to blame on agent.
Look at your face. I think too much in coming to your nice You do your 90 Jim. We'll get 1910? Yeah.
Oh, yeah. I made this up. I have a copyright on that.
You don't know I d'oh, I'm gonna
be Oh, yeah, that's what
I'm gonna challenge
your 90. Yes, 90. Whatever that thing. Yeah,
yeah, you ni Tonto. My husband does that hard, hard as a rock is a man is almost 60 And he has got the body of a husband's rich. Ridiculous. Get him on that. Well, it's ridiculous. Hung such God love him Getting blood.
Ah, back to the W w. I just want to ask you guys, this question is, how did you guys feel about, you know, ruminating on ideas and bringing ideas to the WCW's that you saw kind of go through the motions all the way to New York and then end up as part of this contract? How does that make you feel?
Amazing. Yeah, really incredible. You feel heard you feel hurt you and you and Kevin. You know, I couldn't say this to our that room. That room in New York was just, like, diverse and thoughtful and passionate and people amazing ideas. I mean, then it just kind of kept It was just you had to be on your toes, because day everything's would change. Like I'm gonna challenge something that happened the day before. It was it was just something else, man.
Really was. And
so? So that the difference playing the 2016 in the 2019 negotiations. What were you think?
Well, if I can say I I feel like, um you mean when we're in New York? Yeah. In terms of the other side, I felt like the prior was a lot of back and forth, Um, in terms of what we wanted, what they wanted. This time, it felt like a complete collaboration.
Wow. Was definite, more collaborative in more of a partnership.
There was not. There was There was no, like, it just felt so bottom line. And so we we both you know, we both need our contract. Yeah, And that was what was felt, don't you think?
Yeah, I think it was There was transparency. So it wasn't posturing, You know, it wasn't negotiating posturing like we're going to see this because then we're expecting them to seo concede that would be a waste of time. And we had so much work to do to just figure out alternative lanes and and numbers and making sure that things ultimately made sense. There was so much on the line because we were there for the members. You know, it was like, Okay, who do we What do we hear? One word auditions in rooms. What do we hear in our class? We had to make sure things were happening, That it was like, No, you guys, that's not enough. That's not gonna bring the change. It was just like, shouldering a lot of responsibility. I would say innovative,
innovatively, And we didn't give we we didn't, you know, race to the bottom either, You know? So we have this game changer up from money instead, which is different game changer. Yeah, um, it's not gonna cover all of their needs, but it's gonna be
We're going to see what happens June 1. Right. Coming up. Coming up. We
still have our old contract For those people that might be scared about
these new, that's the beauty of it. That contract still works for a lot of doors for us. Yeah, still
had, you know, dozens and dozens of signatories that use that country
absolutely, and don't have a problem with it. So I'm excited for people to
just dipped their toes in the water in the new lane, though, and I don't think it will be scary. I think there it's not complicated. There's a lot of simplicity to it. So you can map out your money. You can almost line item to some degree, and I think, uh, I think it's gonna It's gonna make a lot of advertisers, ad agencies, payroll companies happier.
I think that's really interesting, because, um, the simplicity is also a little more complex because they have to make a choice in advance of how to pay us, right? Yeah. So that might be difficult for them to make that choice. And they may feel it's temporarily more complex. Huh? Uh, they'll definitely choose the new lane when they know it's going to save them money. Yeah. Then we'll see if they choose it for other reasons, too.
Well, even let me like my commercial agent was gonna called the week after you guys got back from New York and they're saying I want to use, you know, up front. Plus, I wanna use that someone. Is that like, it's not gonna be around tow first? See, it was It was a BBDO in Minneapolis
was calling your agent.
Yeah. Sam, we want to use this. We will hire this, and they're so J p see the other side. Who we negotiate. Yes. They were pushing it out there, so they were living very, buddy.
They're doing town halls there, like I mean, they're on fire with this. They're
doing informational gathering agency to agency.
Yeah, for people that don't know, the J. P. C is the joint policy committing, and they represent the brands and advertising agencies. And that's who we negotiate with in New York,
are negotiating partners and heart of
ERM yeah, and part of their job after negotiations is to get the word out all their all their people, right? Right. So if they're doing that, I'm excited, too, because again, this the whole reason we were so fired up about w W and negotiations. And I felt Gladys because I knew there was people like you three going there that I knew you weren't gonna let things slide. And things be like, Oh, we're just gonna take this little deal.
Another thing to the people need to realize is our our prized class A is still hasn't gone. Yeah, you know it hasn't called, remained intact so and a little
altered for the second lane, but at a very nice number
and a higher price than what we're currently being paid. Sometimes, sometimes something
exciting to is. I just got a call from a friend of mine who's a producer, and she asked me because she didn't know any better. But she's like, Hey, Mike, I'm doing this thing. It's like 15 grand. Can you do it? It's non union. And I was like, Oh, no, I can't but
mind just ratified a new contract and I'm like, you're gonna pay an actor 15 grand. You could make the single union lickety split, so she's like, Oh, I'm gonna go talk to my people and then I'll get back to you. And I was like, I got a person in New York that I can have you call a break and facilitate you turning this thing union. And I think now that we have four different options really for them to choose, I think the word's spreading from producer to producer because there's a lot of new producers that don't know. And they've just heard that second contract scary and it's difficult. But now they're like, No, no, it's new, it's fresh, There's a bunch of options now if we can garner any of that work, I think that's the biggest success I think that we can have is earning some of that getting that nonunion, pendulum swinging thing then then you're gonna see more people getting health insurance for people you know, getting pension credit
e it's gonna take away. It's gonna take away non union work. Yeah, because it's you got $8000 you got $2000 you get. You're always different options, you know, and it's spelled out exactly what you're getting at now. Instead of like the classic contract was, it has 50 60 years of Detroit, a Senate, and you have
the traditional traditional
stuff. You know you have to be an expert. Luckily, I've been a butt like Alicia Ruskin is an expert in the contract. Yeah, but not everybody is. It's imposing,
and we still have those protections. You know, a lot of that book is protections for us on set, and that's what you know. That's what a union provides. Is that security and those protections. You're in good working conditions, and
to remember that. And I know that these are challenging times for God help us, right? There's been like It's very it's very challenging. But to really hold the line and to know what we've worked for and just have pride enough pride not to put a cell sign on your back and go and do that work and know that if we band together like you know. But by being coming more involved in being part of union working, that perhaps, you know we can swing, swing the tide. What's expression
like it's it's educating, You know. It's educating the actors as well Stay on the card. You know, the horrible word fi core. Don't go. Sorry. It's a bad word. Yeah, you know f word. Yeah, it's a four letter word Yeah, and just to encourage people, even anybody listening. If you are, you're thinking about it. Call Mick. Yeah, well, back with open arms. Yeah. I mean, no judgment. It's
never too late to step away from a bad decision.
Yeah, right. Yeah. You were welcomed back. We're
here for you.
Anybody currently pursuing nonunion work and stop that at any
moment. I come, You could become pro union at any time.
has given hope is given us hope. It's user friendly. It's streamlined. It's new and modern. We're not stuck back in the 90
where we are appear with the streaming content were up here with
all the different platforms and it's like it's amazing.
There's more money in traditional media than been in new forms. Contract preserves
that, because that's gonna be shifting over. It's going to shoot for a number like the contract is gonna take us with.
And again, just you know, if we can garner some of this, this this work that's gone away to nonunion, it becomes union it. It's start solving some of the other problems of the fight core where those people go. There's more work in the union? Hell, no. They come People gonna want tojoin sooner and not stay languished as the as the king or Queen of Union
were some answers out
here really want their their their stars to stay the star of non union work which is so terrible, which no one has moved here to become the king with nonunion commercials. And it's exciting
if you're following any of those breakdowns to that, the money, it just keeps getting worse and worse. And eventually, you know, they're gonna have to, uh, band together to get their own working conditions. I mean, what's the, um, the uber lift E? I mean, it's like, guys. Yeah, you're not cab drivers. You know, of course, that it's inevitable that a group is going to need to gather to protect itself.
Growing economy, that work. That work has
already occurred. So just stick with us.
You know what I'm excited for? I'm excited for that 20 ground. I mean, seriously, you will make your you could make plan to insurance in 11 job here and check for that amount. Hitting, hitting my bank account. I'm all about it. And guess what? And guess what I want to
look at that street cred right
there. That's right. And also remember,
it's way say, it's a 20 grand. But you guys, it's that 20 grand with 10 Class A Most people who buy that they were gonna want more. So what? 100 a pop? Yeah, you're going to get I mean, I don't know, 10 classing in a year. That's not as common. Uh,
no. My spots, if it had no class a four Class A's or Maur 200. Yes, well, I've never had one like that. About 100 or something, but yeah, so I think it'll be a good thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it will
well test on behalf of Jim and myself. We want to thank you three.
Is it over already? I think we're close. I can bask
in your reading.
a moment to thank you guys for being on the negotiating committee for being there for all those w w. Because it is. It wasn't It wasn't just you guys showing up in New York. You were there in all the w have been at the union working meetings, tops, even at the ads. Go union meetings than our monthly that sags holding. It's not just, you know,
way have kids we have, you know? No, no, B s. This is how we have made houses, kids, school, college. This is how we've done it.
It's not jobs. It's your career.
Yeah, our lives way. You're passionate about this.
We're invested. And you guys, it's not just us. I mean, we look, that room is sitting. I would always say, Oh, those air the attorneys like there's actors who could have right,
Kevin And you might be one of us talking about him. He was in a law firm. I would sit there and I go all right. If I'm on trial for murder, I going through a really bad divorce. I want those three people just can formulate. I mean, there's they're just
numbers people. There are people that know that the contract back and forth that can It's
incredible. I'm sorry, but I was born in good hands.
Was the members. Is the negotiating team for us?
Yes. We're talking our negotiators and we're actors members.
33 members, all of them good people. All of them wanted.
Yeah. And all of them if I could say who have a lot at stake in this. There were not people in there who
didn't know what they were talking about
or who don't work this contra
experience. Yep, yep.
And I think that's important for our listeners to hear about because I think for a long time you've heard this mythology of, like, it's a
bunch of actors negotiating their contracts. People thought like we didn't have lawyers. They're like, Yeah, yeah, they just thought it was like, you know, Joe Pesci are they don't do commercials. It's great to hear, like we had 33 people is like, Yeah, members were some of the smart, smartest, so thoughtful you guys. So I mean, I'm a
lawyer on TV, but
yeah, go Justice just end with everybody that spoke. Spoke with our membership right behind us. Yeah, we all were thinking of you guys. I mean, seriously.
And it's so great to have all those names in the Wall Street Journal. Alan Alda. Uh, Jennifer Aniston. Michael Douglas was 105 100 names or whatever. That thing was great. Yeah,
well, this has been fantastic. Strap minor. That's really lt's amazing. It's been camping.
All right, well, thank you. Thanks for having us. We'll have you back. Like,
make sure your validate your parking on the way on. Mickey wants to give you to show the
crowd. Sounds good. So you can do Sid's shoulders. Nice shoes. Thanks, guys.
And we're out.
Make sure to download the next episode. I'd like to thank blue microphones. Their mikes are fantastic and their headphones killer. The Gator Case company. Your equipment can travel in style. Protect your investment. Pre Sonus. I just love their studio live Siri's, the Road Corporation, The Filmmaker Kits and Masonic Microphone and Recorders All rock. And, of course, task Am The Model 24 has been amazing. Need music for a podcast, television project, film, audio book or any other production need. I suggest you call my friends at Spirit Production Music. You can find them and listen to their music at Spirit production music dot com. Representing over 50 music libraries and over 200,000 tracks, Spirit production music has all the music. You'll need staff to help and prices you'll love emailed them through their website or give him a call today at 818508 2040 That's 818508 2040 Asked for My Buddy Ryan will personally help you find the right music for your project spirit production music dot com Check him out. You'll be thrilled.